Introduction
Relationship building is rarely part of an engineering degree, yet it shapes almost every career in the AEC industry. On this episode of The Power of Design Podcast, Jack Ossa sits down with John Nowak, P.E., Project Manager at CAGE Engineering, to talk about what it really takes to grow a civil engineering practice in a city where nobody knows your name.
About three and a half years ago, John and his fiancée moved from the Chicago area to Charlotte, and John became the first CAGE team member in the city. Since then the firm has hired locally and built a presence across the Carolinas. His story is a practical guide to business development for engineers: meet people, add value before asking for anything, and earn the kind of trust that keeps clients coming back.
About the Episode
From Chicago to civil engineering. John grew up in the Chicagoland suburbs and studied civil engineering at the University of Kentucky. He chose engineering over business because he believed it would be easier to move from technical skills into business than the other way around, and three older cousins who were civil engineers had already shown him the path. He met CAGE's founders as a sophomore, interned with them, and spent his first four years at the firm in Chicago, working largely on industrial projects for developers during the warehouse and e-commerce boom. On buildings from 200,000 to a million square feet, he says, a grading error of a tenth or two has a big impact.
Starting over in Charlotte. The move was personal. John and his fiancée listed cities with strong growth, she circled Charlotte, and CAGE told him it would make it work wherever he went. The first six months were, in his words, "a mile wide and an inch deep": attend events, meet everyone, and find an edge. His edge was CAGE's national footprint. Out-of-town developers were arriving in the Carolinas, and CAGE might already be working with them in Chicago or Colorado. He ended almost every meeting by asking who else he should know, which let him start connecting people with architects, insurance brokers and other partners.
Hunting vs. farming in business development. Jack and John agree that the best business development is generous rather than transactional. John shares a mentor's analogy: sometimes you hunt for a specific project, but most of the work is farming, cultivating relationships that bear fruit over time. Jack adds that patience and confidence go together, and that value given to one group often comes back from somewhere else entirely. Both describe the moment a big opportunity lands and feels lucky, until they remember the years of effort behind it. As self-described introverts, they also note that good business developers listen far more than they talk.
What clients really buy. CAGE describes itself as a land development consultant, not just an engineering firm. John says the firm can be "the best civil engineer you've ever worked with" or a client's "easy button," quarterbacking survey, geotechnical, landscape architecture and other consultants. A recent client panel made the point plainly: clients are buying an approval strategy for entitlements and permitting, not a set of plans. A client survey two years earlier pointed the same way, to relationships and client service. Jack connects this to his own view that people buy experiences, and how a project makes them feel.
Culture, accountability and growth. CAGE is an in-office firm with a "work hard, play hard" culture, and John credits the open office with constant knowledge transfer. Jack, whose firm designs workplaces, explains why the built environment matters to that kind of collaboration. The two also discuss why technical people should stay involved in pursuits, why it is fine to say "let me get back to you" as long as you follow through, and why John sees growth over the next five years as a byproduct of doing the right thing for clients.
Key Takeaways
- In a new market, go wide first: meet everyone, connect people, and ask who else you should know.
- Business development is more farming than hunting; patience and consistent value compound over time.
- Land development clients buy a path to approval and a responsive partner, not drawings.
- Introverts can be strong business developers because listening matters more than talking.
- "I'll research that and get back to you" builds credibility when you follow through.
- When technical people help win the work, they are invested in delivering it, and clients notice.
Highlights from the Conversation
We can either be the best civil engineer you've ever worked with or we can be your easy button.
John Nowak
I'm not buying the set of plans that you produce me. What I'm buying is your approval strategy.
A CAGE client, as recalled by John Nowak
People don't buy products or services, they buy experiences.
Jack Ossa
Topics Discussed
- Choosing civil engineering and the breadth of a civil engineering degree
- Industrial development during the warehouse and e-commerce boom
- Opening CAGE's first office in Charlotte
- Networking in a new market and finding your edge
- Hunting vs. farming in relationship building
- Business development for introverted engineers
- Land development consulting and the "easy button" approach
- Entitlements, permitting and what clients really value
- In-office culture, knowledge transfer and workplace design
- Technical professionals in business development
- Baking, homemade pizza, Colombian coffee, DJing and AI
Why This Conversation Matters
Most engineers and architects reach a point where technical skill is no longer enough and they need to bring in work. John's experience shows that this does not require a big personality. It takes curiosity, generosity, patience and follow-through. For AEC professionals, firm leaders and early-career engineers, this conversation offers a grounded way to approach relationship building that serves clients and the long-term health of a practice. The open, in-office culture John describes is the kind of workplace we design at Ossa Studio, for example our own office at Hedgemore Flex, and our commercial interior design work starts from how a team actually works together.
About the Guest
John Nowak, P.E., is a Project Manager at CAGE Engineering, Inc., with experience in civil engineering and land development across commercial and industrial markets. His work spans the development process, from site feasibility and planning through design, permitting and construction. He played a key role in establishing CAGE's Charlotte office, serves as Treasurer of CRExCLT and participates in CREDA's Developing Leader program. John holds a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from the University of Kentucky and is a licensed Professional Engineer in North Carolina and Illinois.
